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	<title>Comments for the wrathful dove</title>
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	<link>http://wrathfuldove.org</link>
	<description>An e-Rant about Politics, Religion, Software, etc.</description>
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		<title>Comment on Why Christians Should Not Vote Republican Part I: Abortion by Chris</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2008/10/16/why-christians-should-not-vote-republican-part-i-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-46820</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 00:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=95#comment-46820</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1736&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Sheila&lt;/a&gt; 
Sheila.....  you are THE reason I became an atheist, long ago.  Or should I say; people LIKE you.  When I was a Christian, I couldn&#039;t understand why conservatives were so against social programs that help the poor!  It didn&#039;t make sense!!  Now as an atheist moderate liberal, I have more &quot;christian&quot; morality and compassion in my little finger than Sheila will EVER have in her empty judgmental hypocritical &quot;xtian&quot; heart.  Most Christians are phony and hypocritical anyway.  They still eat shellfish while they condemn homosexuals.  Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1736" rel="nofollow">@Sheila</a><br />
Sheila&#8230;..  you are THE reason I became an atheist, long ago.  Or should I say; people LIKE you.  When I was a Christian, I couldn&#8217;t understand why conservatives were so against social programs that help the poor!  It didn&#8217;t make sense!!  Now as an atheist moderate liberal, I have more &#8220;christian&#8221; morality and compassion in my little finger than Sheila will EVER have in her empty judgmental hypocritical &#8220;xtian&#8221; heart.  Most Christians are phony and hypocritical anyway.  They still eat shellfish while they condemn homosexuals.  Go figure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Christians Should Not Vote Republican Part I: Abortion by Eric</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2008/10/16/why-christians-should-not-vote-republican-part-i-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-38224</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 16:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=95#comment-38224</guid>
		<description>Excellent article.  I&#039;ve been feeling this way for a long, long time, but haven&#039;t been able to articulate it as well as you have.  When I read the Bible, I see so many examples of helping the needy not abandoning them.  Thank you for putting this into words for me.

God bless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article.  I&#8217;ve been feeling this way for a long, long time, but haven&#8217;t been able to articulate it as well as you have.  When I read the Bible, I see so many examples of helping the needy not abandoning them.  Thank you for putting this into words for me.</p>
<p>God bless.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reading the Bible 4: The Book of Adam and the Tetragrammaton by Felix</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/09/25/reading-the-bible-4-the-book-of-adam-and-the-tetragrammaton/comment-page-1/#comment-37056</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=320#comment-37056</guid>
		<description>A very interesting commentary so far...I&#039;ll have to follow this one. A favourite bugbear of mine is the use of Yahweh rather than the more popular but less accurate Jehovah, and it&#039;s good to see a Bible translation using it. 

The issue of using God&#039;s name in Jewish culture is fascinating and it surfaces subtly in the gospels. Whereas Mark, Luke and John use the phrase &#039;kingdom of God,&#039; Matthew uses &#039;kingdom of heaven&#039;. Some readers take this to be evidence that the kingdom being referred to is literally a kingdom that is in heaven, the more likely explanation is that Matthew omitted the name of God so as not to offend his primarily Jewish audience. 
Thus when he uses the phrase &#039;kingdom of heaven&#039; Matthew refers to a heavenly kingdom, rather than a kingdom &#039;in&#039; heaven (this explanation is made a lot clearer by the original greek script than the English translation)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very interesting commentary so far&#8230;I&#8217;ll have to follow this one. A favourite bugbear of mine is the use of Yahweh rather than the more popular but less accurate Jehovah, and it&#8217;s good to see a Bible translation using it. </p>
<p>The issue of using God&#8217;s name in Jewish culture is fascinating and it surfaces subtly in the gospels. Whereas Mark, Luke and John use the phrase &#8216;kingdom of God,&#8217; Matthew uses &#8216;kingdom of heaven&#8217;. Some readers take this to be evidence that the kingdom being referred to is literally a kingdom that is in heaven, the more likely explanation is that Matthew omitted the name of God so as not to offend his primarily Jewish audience.<br />
Thus when he uses the phrase &#8216;kingdom of heaven&#8217; Matthew refers to a heavenly kingdom, rather than a kingdom &#8216;in&#8217; heaven (this explanation is made a lot clearer by the original greek script than the English translation)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Roy&#8217;s Hawaiian Fusion Cuisine by Duncan</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2007/09/08/roys-hawaiian-fusion-cuisine/comment-page-1/#comment-35626</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 04:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://test.wrathfuldove.org/2007/09/08/roys-hawaiian-fusion-cuisine/#comment-35626</guid>
		<description>Following the recommendation on the web, we tried Roy&#039;s in Wakiki last night and were very pleasantly surprised - it was great!
The service, level of gluten awareness of the ingredients used and overall experience was  excellent.
Definitely a holiday highlight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following the recommendation on the web, we tried Roy&#8217;s in Wakiki last night and were very pleasantly surprised &#8211; it was great!<br />
The service, level of gluten awareness of the ingredients used and overall experience was  excellent.<br />
Definitely a holiday highlight.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Christians Should Not Vote Republican Part I: Abortion by Maria</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2008/10/16/why-christians-should-not-vote-republican-part-i-abortion/comment-page-1/#comment-32849</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 16:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=95#comment-32849</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1736&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Sheila&lt;/a&gt; 
Hey Sheila .. maybe you should read the facts presented that the Republican party has done NOTHING to over turn Roe V Wade.  As a matter of fact if you look up the original decision you will find that most of the justices that voted to make abortion legal WERE republican.

Stop believing the lies.  Provide assistance to desperate women so they won&#039;t feel the need to abort.... that will go much further than the constant lies of the republican party to end abortion.
Oh and another note ...abortion used to be illegal .. people were still doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1736" rel="nofollow">@Sheila</a><br />
Hey Sheila .. maybe you should read the facts presented that the Republican party has done NOTHING to over turn Roe V Wade.  As a matter of fact if you look up the original decision you will find that most of the justices that voted to make abortion legal WERE republican.</p>
<p>Stop believing the lies.  Provide assistance to desperate women so they won&#8217;t feel the need to abort&#8230;. that will go much further than the constant lies of the republican party to end abortion.<br />
Oh and another note &#8230;abortion used to be illegal .. people were still doing it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reading the Bible 3: Genesis 1:1-2:4a by John</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/09/23/reading-the-bible-3-genesis-11-24a/comment-page-1/#comment-31334</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=290#comment-31334</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen that argument before as well, and while it might be correct, I personally think it&#039;s reading too much into the text. I think the &quot;royal we&quot; together with the heavenly court works better. Also, the use of the &quot;royal we&quot; might not have anything to with how God refers to Himself, but rather more to do with how He was seen in the ancient Hebrew culture. The Prophets often conjured up the image of God as King and Jesus used the image of God as Father - much of our image of God is but a rough understanding imparted through cultural analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen that argument before as well, and while it might be correct, I personally think it&#8217;s reading too much into the text. I think the &#8220;royal we&#8221; together with the heavenly court works better. Also, the use of the &#8220;royal we&#8221; might not have anything to with how God refers to Himself, but rather more to do with how He was seen in the ancient Hebrew culture. The Prophets often conjured up the image of God as King and Jesus used the image of God as Father &#8211; much of our image of God is but a rough understanding imparted through cultural analogy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reading the Bible 3: Genesis 1:1-2:4a by Tox the Wanderer</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/09/23/reading-the-bible-3-genesis-11-24a/comment-page-1/#comment-31317</link>
		<dc:creator>Tox the Wanderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 04:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=290#comment-31317</guid>
		<description>I recently read an argument that the plurality of &quot;elohim&quot; in that passage is a reference to the Trinity.  The argument was based on the fact that the &quot;royal we&quot; is only used by God in four places in the Bible, and therefore not God the Father&#039;s customary way of referring to Himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently read an argument that the plurality of &#8220;elohim&#8221; in that passage is a reference to the Trinity.  The argument was based on the fact that the &#8220;royal we&#8221; is only used by God in four places in the Bible, and therefore not God the Father&#8217;s customary way of referring to Himself.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t Vote by Israel Kloss</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/10/07/dont-vote-organize/comment-page-1/#comment-30923</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel Kloss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 00:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=359#comment-30923</guid>
		<description>great elaboration, John. Thanks. To answer your question, yes, I have attended a Quaker meeting and I, too, found the absolute silence challenging and the unitarian universalist leanings away form the supremacy of Jesus (as George Fox taught). 

I gave up church in 2003 but within 6 months some events brought me into a community associated with the emerging church movement often associated with Spencer Burke, Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt. Take a look: http://www.emergentvillage.com/cohorts-locations/emergingphoenix

since you and I see very eye to eye politically and, it seems, spiritually, too... you should take a closer look. I&#039;m quite impressed over the past 6 years at my current emergent community: www.commontable.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great elaboration, John. Thanks. To answer your question, yes, I have attended a Quaker meeting and I, too, found the absolute silence challenging and the unitarian universalist leanings away form the supremacy of Jesus (as George Fox taught). </p>
<p>I gave up church in 2003 but within 6 months some events brought me into a community associated with the emerging church movement often associated with Spencer Burke, Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt. Take a look: <a href="http://www.emergentvillage.com/cohorts-locations/emergingphoenix" rel="nofollow" onclick="urchinTracker('/outgoing/www.emergentvillage.com/cohorts-locations/emergingphoenix?referer=');">http://www.emergentvillage.com/cohorts-locations/emergingphoenix</a></p>
<p>since you and I see very eye to eye politically and, it seems, spiritually, too&#8230; you should take a closer look. I&#8217;m quite impressed over the past 6 years at my current emergent community: <a href="http://www.commontable.org" rel="nofollow" onclick="urchinTracker('/outgoing/www.commontable.org?referer=');">http://www.commontable.org</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t Vote by John</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/10/07/dont-vote-organize/comment-page-1/#comment-30790</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=359#comment-30790</guid>
		<description>Regarding the Quakers, it is funny that you should mention them. Back in 2004, when I was attending an evangelical Willow-Creek style church and grappling with the political changes being awakened in me by my finally having read the Bible through all the way and my new conviction that honoring Jesus&#039;s teachings were incompatible with supporting wars, I discovered the history of the Anabaptists and also the early Quakers who had things in common with Anabaptists. My church at the time explicitly supported the War in Iraq, the church had American Flag posters flying inside the church offices, and on July 4th we had a service that was filled with nationalistic self-congratulatory prayers that I found prideful and incompatible with the church&#039;s universal nature and Christ&#039;s call of universal brotherhood. I felt unable to continue attending the church and roughly around this time became aware of a Christian Quaker meeting to the north of Atlanta. While I felt myself more strongly attracted to Anabaptism, George Fox&#039;s ministry did resonate with me and so we began attending there for a year or so.

Unfortunately, the dominant force in the Quaker community these days is Liberal Quakerism which is in many ways like Unitarian Universalism where everything is embraced including strange combinations like Atheist Quakers. The largest Quaker meeting in Atlanta is such a meeting and is not a place where I would feel comfortable given that my faith is Christ-centered. The Gwinnett meeting that we attended was started by a Christ-centered Conservative Quaker, but most of the attenders came from the Atlanta meeting and were more in tune with Liberal Quakerism. For me, the church is about Christian fellowship and a mutual strengthening of each other in the faith. Thus, I felt that I was not having this need met there and eventually we left. In addition, I had a lot of trouble practicing the Quaker form of worship which involves sitting in absolute silence for the duration of the service - with the silence broken only when people feel led by the Spirit to speak.

Have you attended a Quaker meeting?

Currently, we are &quot;churchless&quot; - though I am attracted to the home church movement that seeks to recapture the kind of community described in the book of Acts. I&#039;m not currently aware of any such communities that Melinda and I could easily join although I have a friend who lives in Greenville who is participating in one that sounds cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Quakers, it is funny that you should mention them. Back in 2004, when I was attending an evangelical Willow-Creek style church and grappling with the political changes being awakened in me by my finally having read the Bible through all the way and my new conviction that honoring Jesus&#8217;s teachings were incompatible with supporting wars, I discovered the history of the Anabaptists and also the early Quakers who had things in common with Anabaptists. My church at the time explicitly supported the War in Iraq, the church had American Flag posters flying inside the church offices, and on July 4th we had a service that was filled with nationalistic self-congratulatory prayers that I found prideful and incompatible with the church&#8217;s universal nature and Christ&#8217;s call of universal brotherhood. I felt unable to continue attending the church and roughly around this time became aware of a Christian Quaker meeting to the north of Atlanta. While I felt myself more strongly attracted to Anabaptism, George Fox&#8217;s ministry did resonate with me and so we began attending there for a year or so.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the dominant force in the Quaker community these days is Liberal Quakerism which is in many ways like Unitarian Universalism where everything is embraced including strange combinations like Atheist Quakers. The largest Quaker meeting in Atlanta is such a meeting and is not a place where I would feel comfortable given that my faith is Christ-centered. The Gwinnett meeting that we attended was started by a Christ-centered Conservative Quaker, but most of the attenders came from the Atlanta meeting and were more in tune with Liberal Quakerism. For me, the church is about Christian fellowship and a mutual strengthening of each other in the faith. Thus, I felt that I was not having this need met there and eventually we left. In addition, I had a lot of trouble practicing the Quaker form of worship which involves sitting in absolute silence for the duration of the service &#8211; with the silence broken only when people feel led by the Spirit to speak.</p>
<p>Have you attended a Quaker meeting?</p>
<p>Currently, we are &#8220;churchless&#8221; &#8211; though I am attracted to the home church movement that seeks to recapture the kind of community described in the book of Acts. I&#8217;m not currently aware of any such communities that Melinda and I could easily join although I have a friend who lives in Greenville who is participating in one that sounds cool.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t Vote by John</title>
		<link>http://wrathfuldove.org/2010/10/07/dont-vote-organize/comment-page-1/#comment-30787</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrathfuldove.org/?p=359#comment-30787</guid>
		<description>I should clarify myself. I wrote this post more as a polemic against the &quot;get out the vote&quot; attitude I was seeing. While as a rule of thumb, I would say &quot;Don&#039;t Vote&quot;, it is not an absolute position - I am not strictly opposed to voting in all circumstances. I voted in the last election for Ralph Nader for instance. Especially in local elections where your voice actually might be heard, I think voting can be productive when paired with activism. Also, in the context of a powerful independent labor movement where said movement forms its own independent political party, I think it can be strategically valuable to participate in such a Labor party - but always with direct action and public organization in the forefront and voting as a tool for gaining attention and organizing the public into a powerful force for its own interest.

The example of Dennis Kucinich is an interesting case. If you&#039;ve read some of my older posts, you&#039;ll see that I&#039;ve supported Dennis Kucinich in the last two Democratic Primaries. He has always held highly progressive positions and seemed a man of genuine integrity. So in the past, I would have whole-heartedly supported him if I had lived within his district. That said, I would likely no longer offer him my support today because I have come to see him (regardless of his intentions) as functioning as useful (for the Democrats) means of getting more progressive forces to join the Democrat tent - i.e. to give their votes to the unprogressive Democratic Party. Kucinich talks a very good game, but when his voice most counts he caves in and asks his supporters to join him in doing so. For example, he was a bold voice opposing the invasion of Iraq and calling for the immediate removal of troops during the lead up to the 2004 Presidential Democratic Primaries. But when the pro-war Kerry won the Democratic ticket, Kucinich asked his anti-war supporters to rally around the pro-war candidate. Kucinich has long been a strong voice for Single-Payer Universal Health Care. However, when his voice actually mattered as means of possibly forcing Obama and the other Congressial Democrats to make the Healthcare legislation less toothless (and keep alive the possibility of state level Single-Payer), he caved-in under pressure from Obama and changed his tune. 

So I would have to think long and before supporting Kucinich in Ohio. As best as I can tell - despite his talking a lot about progressive politics, he doesn&#039;t seem to actually vote that way when he actually has the potential to affect things. Thus, he functionally serves as nothing more than a way to gather some progressive votes and give a little more cover to the lie that the Democrats represent a progressive force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify myself. I wrote this post more as a polemic against the &#8220;get out the vote&#8221; attitude I was seeing. While as a rule of thumb, I would say &#8220;Don&#8217;t Vote&#8221;, it is not an absolute position &#8211; I am not strictly opposed to voting in all circumstances. I voted in the last election for Ralph Nader for instance. Especially in local elections where your voice actually might be heard, I think voting can be productive when paired with activism. Also, in the context of a powerful independent labor movement where said movement forms its own independent political party, I think it can be strategically valuable to participate in such a Labor party &#8211; but always with direct action and public organization in the forefront and voting as a tool for gaining attention and organizing the public into a powerful force for its own interest.</p>
<p>The example of Dennis Kucinich is an interesting case. If you&#8217;ve read some of my older posts, you&#8217;ll see that I&#8217;ve supported Dennis Kucinich in the last two Democratic Primaries. He has always held highly progressive positions and seemed a man of genuine integrity. So in the past, I would have whole-heartedly supported him if I had lived within his district. That said, I would likely no longer offer him my support today because I have come to see him (regardless of his intentions) as functioning as useful (for the Democrats) means of getting more progressive forces to join the Democrat tent &#8211; i.e. to give their votes to the unprogressive Democratic Party. Kucinich talks a very good game, but when his voice most counts he caves in and asks his supporters to join him in doing so. For example, he was a bold voice opposing the invasion of Iraq and calling for the immediate removal of troops during the lead up to the 2004 Presidential Democratic Primaries. But when the pro-war Kerry won the Democratic ticket, Kucinich asked his anti-war supporters to rally around the pro-war candidate. Kucinich has long been a strong voice for Single-Payer Universal Health Care. However, when his voice actually mattered as means of possibly forcing Obama and the other Congressial Democrats to make the Healthcare legislation less toothless (and keep alive the possibility of state level Single-Payer), he caved-in under pressure from Obama and changed his tune. </p>
<p>So I would have to think long and before supporting Kucinich in Ohio. As best as I can tell &#8211; despite his talking a lot about progressive politics, he doesn&#8217;t seem to actually vote that way when he actually has the potential to affect things. Thus, he functionally serves as nothing more than a way to gather some progressive votes and give a little more cover to the lie that the Democrats represent a progressive force.</p>
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